Comments on: Jimmy Carter, “Palestine Peace Not Apartheid” http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/ Resisting 60 years of apartheid Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:52:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Neil http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-162309 Neil Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:19:23 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-162309 According to a poll taken throughout Europe in the mid. 1990’s, the number one country who is the biggest threat to world peace is Israel. Now, not all Jews are a threat to world peace, just the ones controlling the state of Israel. To use the excuse that Israel has the right to defend itself and use whatever means are necessary to defend itself, is wearing a little thin. This is not about defending oneself, this is about who is right and who is wrong , plain and simple. If the right things were done in the beginning, there would be no need to defend anybody. Jews, Muslims and Christians would be living in peace in the Holy Land, side by side. But, they are not and whose fault is it? Yes, the Arabs got to carve up what was felt of the Middle East after World War II and rightfully so. They fought and died for the right side in the war. What did the Jews do, but broker some backroom deal behind the scene to get their piece of the pie. Using the Bible to justify their actions and to top it all off, could they have picked a more controversial piece of land to claim as your own. A piece of land, that all the major religions of the world hold sacred. It was not enough that they thought is was their God given right to do so, they took even more land when their surrounding neighbors protested their actions, almost twenty years later. Ok, here’s the bottom line. Because of their actions, millions of people were displaced and lost everything they had. People ran in fear of their lives, with most ending up in refugee camps that still exist today. And for what, so Jews could fulfill a promise given to them by God Almighty. Personally, I do not think that is the way God intended it to go down. So, now they have made their bed and have to sleep in it. Sweet dreams. According to a poll taken throughout Europe in the mid. 1990’s, the number one country who is the biggest threat to world peace is Israel. Now, not all Jews are a threat to world peace, just the ones controlling the state of Israel.

To use the excuse that Israel has the right to defend itself and use whatever means are necessary to defend itself, is wearing a little thin. This is not about defending oneself, this is about who is right and who is wrong , plain and simple. If the right things were done in the beginning, there would be no need to defend anybody. Jews, Muslims and Christians would be living in peace in the Holy Land, side by side. But, they are not and whose fault is it?

Yes, the Arabs got to carve up what was felt of the Middle East after World War II and rightfully so. They fought and died for the right side in the war. What did the Jews do, but broker some backroom deal behind the scene to get their piece of the pie. Using the Bible to justify their actions and to top it all off, could they have picked a more controversial piece of land to claim as your own. A piece of land, that all the major religions of the world hold sacred. It was not enough that they thought is was their God given right to do so, they took even more land when their surrounding neighbors protested their actions, almost twenty years later.

Ok, here’s the bottom line. Because of their actions, millions of people were displaced and lost everything they had. People ran in fear of their lives, with most ending up in refugee camps that still exist today. And for what, so Jews could fulfill a promise given to them by God Almighty. Personally, I do not think that is the way God intended it to go down.

So, now they have made their bed and have to sleep in it. Sweet dreams.

]]> By: Cliff http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-1968 Cliff Thu, 25 Jan 2007 14:42:22 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-1968 I'm about halfway through Carter's book. I'm jewish and pro Israel. This book is not anti-semitic. Carter writes about some very painful truths that very few are prepared to say or admit. He is clear in the beginning of the book to say that some Palestinians have committed totally reprehensible crimes. So to say he is one-sided is short-sighted to say the least. In 'punishing' the Palestinians for their crimes (crossing closures, taking land, withholding taxes etc.), Israel has finally got to the point where they can't do any more to pressure the Palestinians into 'Peace'. People have to have something in order for someone else to have a threat of taking it away again. Carter, I believe 'picks' on Israel because they are the only accountable side in the conflict. The hatchet jobs being done on Carter in this and many other forums are simplistic and clearly these people 'just don't get it'. Eye-for-an-eye stopped working a long time ago. As for Dershowitz, this clearly impressive fellow damages his own argument - just as he claims Carter has done. He indicates that Carter's views are tainted due to the Arab contributions to the Carter. But it's very well known that the Bush family has ultra close ties with the Saudi Royal family, yet they support Israel unconditionally. This pours very cold water on Dershowitz's claims. I understand there were other subtleties to Dershowitz's article, but he lost his credibility on his main attack theme. So, to the critics, the book is certainly not 'right', but it indicates that if you mistreat someone for long enough, you shouldn't be surprised if you get mis-treated back. For the mortally stupid (and I've seen a few here), this does not mean it is OK for Palestians to kill or rocket Israelies, but it means that if you see that they have nothing else any more (because it's been taken away), they will feel nothing about fighting back. It's a brave book and any pro-Israel person should read it and consider what he's actually saying before prematurely ejaculating stupid responses. I'm with Rollie. God Bless Israel - and the Palestinians - and mankind (and especially the women!) generally. Thanks Cliff I’m about halfway through Carter’s book. I’m jewish and pro Israel. This book is not anti-semitic. Carter writes about some very painful truths that very few are prepared to say or admit. He is clear in the beginning of the book to say that some Palestinians have committed totally reprehensible crimes. So to say he is one-sided is short-sighted to say the least.

In ‘punishing’ the Palestinians for their crimes (crossing closures, taking land, withholding taxes etc.), Israel has finally got to the point where they can’t do any more to pressure the Palestinians into ‘Peace’. People have to have something in order for someone else to have a threat of taking it away again.

Carter, I believe ‘picks’ on Israel because they are the only accountable side in the conflict. The hatchet jobs being done on Carter in this and many other forums are simplistic and clearly these people ‘just don’t get it’. Eye-for-an-eye stopped working a long time ago.

As for Dershowitz, this clearly impressive fellow damages his own argument - just as he claims Carter has done. He indicates that Carter’s views are tainted due to the Arab contributions to the Carter. But it’s very well known that the Bush family has ultra close ties with the Saudi Royal family, yet they support Israel unconditionally. This pours very cold water on Dershowitz’s claims. I understand there were other subtleties to Dershowitz’s article, but he lost his credibility on his main attack theme.

So, to the critics, the book is certainly not ‘right’, but it indicates that if you mistreat someone for long enough, you shouldn’t be surprised if you get mis-treated back. For the mortally stupid (and I’ve seen a few here), this does not mean it is OK for Palestians to kill or rocket Israelies, but it means that if you see that they have nothing else any more (because it’s been taken away), they will feel nothing about fighting back.

It’s a brave book and any pro-Israel person should read it and consider what he’s actually saying before prematurely ejaculating stupid responses.

I’m with Rollie. God Bless Israel - and the Palestinians - and mankind (and especially the women!) generally.

Thanks
Cliff

]]> By: Rollie Kenmore http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-1886 Rollie Kenmore Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:17:43 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-1886 God Bless Israel. God Bless Israel.

]]> By: robert http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-650 robert Tue, 19 Dec 2006 18:14:25 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-650 To Kaiser Sose. You mentioned that Israel stole land from the Arabs? Actually, that is pure projection. Israel was a nation long before the US was on the maps. In fact, the US, Canada, Australia, etc. "stole" land from the indiginous populations, and the US was extraordinarily brutal. Israelis fought (after being attacked) for the re-emerence of their lost independence and won. And then, when they were attacked again, they won more. When peace is even a possibility, Israel has come to the table and given up land for the mere promise of peace. Even Israel's most right wing prime minister (M. Begin) gave land for peace when a REAL peace partner (like Sadat) emerged. Israel has peace treaties with Eygpt and Jordan, and will no doubt close the circle of peace when a true peace partner comes along. Hamas is not that peace partner. Ultimately, in history, it is up to the victors of the war to determine the grounds upon which peace is to be made. Israel is anomolous in this sense, as it is the defeated attackers who beleive that they should set the terms. Today, the Palestinian leadership still seeks maximalist goals (like flooding Israel with Palestinians!), and while discussing cease fires, are publicly plotting and speaking freely about the future anniliation of Israel. Carters book is so naive that it is almost sad. To Kaiser Sose. You mentioned that Israel stole land from the Arabs? Actually, that is pure projection. Israel was a nation long before the US was on the maps. In fact, the US, Canada, Australia, etc. “stole” land from the indiginous populations, and the US was extraordinarily brutal.

Israelis fought (after being attacked) for the re-emerence of their lost independence and won. And then, when they were attacked again, they won more.

When peace is even a possibility, Israel has come to the table and given up land for the mere promise of peace. Even Israel’s most right wing prime minister (M. Begin) gave land for peace when a REAL peace partner (like Sadat) emerged.

Israel has peace treaties with Eygpt and Jordan, and will no doubt close the circle of peace when a true peace partner comes along. Hamas is not that peace partner.

Ultimately, in history, it is up to the victors of the war to determine the grounds upon which peace is to be made. Israel is anomolous in this sense, as it is the defeated attackers who beleive that they should set the terms. Today, the Palestinian leadership still seeks maximalist goals (like flooding Israel with Palestinians!), and while discussing cease fires, are publicly plotting and speaking freely about the future anniliation of Israel.

Carters book is so naive that it is almost sad.

]]> By: patrick desjarlais http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-595 patrick desjarlais Thu, 14 Dec 2006 22:42:21 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-595 Observer, I am not sure who in this blog has said that Jews control the media. And, if said i would agree with you that this is a popular construct which misrepresents the actual forces of control in the media. I have not read Jimmy Carter's book in its' entirety, but i am relatively certain that Jimmy Carter has not said or insuated this. From what i have read and heard from Jimmy Carter with regard to the U.S media and its' coverage of the occupation of Palestine by the state of Israel, he is simply stating what many objective observers have been saying for some time: That the U.S media has been impotent compared with other countries including Britain, Canada, Sweden, France, many other countires and even the state of Israel... in terms of basic honest coverage of the ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people. For example how often do you hear that Palestine is being occupied by Israel in the U.S. media, or that the state of Israel continues to steal land from the palestinians; that it was Israael who would not except the road map; that hundreds of Palestinians have been kidnapped... you do hear when two Israeli soldiers are kidnapped, you even learn their names, meet their families. To put it bluntly, in the U.S. the palestinian plight is completely under represented. And no i don't think it is a Jewish conspiracy controlling the media but what you do have is a very powerful Israeli lobby in the U.S, a coporate media controlled by some of the same interests who's thirst for oil knows no borders, and a U.S. government that has linked it's strategic intererst with that of the greedy souless corporate sector. In short i don't think Jimmy Carter or most sensible obervers are suggesting a Jewish controlled media is the problem, but rather the corporate capatalist media which is more concerned with profit and power then people and truth. Observer, I am not sure who in this blog has said that Jews control the media. And, if said i would agree with you that this is a popular construct which misrepresents the actual forces of control in the media. I have not read Jimmy Carter’s book in its’ entirety, but i am relatively certain that Jimmy Carter has not said or insuated this. From what i have read and heard from Jimmy Carter with regard to the U.S media and its’ coverage of the occupation of Palestine by the state of Israel, he is simply stating what many objective observers have been saying for some time: That the U.S media has been impotent compared with other countries including Britain, Canada, Sweden, France, many other countires and even the state of Israel… in terms of basic honest coverage of the ongoing oppression of the Palestinian people. For example how often do you hear that Palestine is being occupied by Israel in the U.S. media, or that the state of Israel continues to steal land from the palestinians; that it was Israael who would not except the road map; that hundreds of Palestinians have been kidnapped… you do hear when two Israeli soldiers are kidnapped, you even learn their names, meet their families. To put it bluntly, in the U.S. the palestinian plight is completely under represented. And no i don’t think it is a Jewish conspiracy controlling the media but what you do have is a very powerful Israeli lobby in the U.S, a coporate media controlled by some of the same interests who’s thirst for oil knows no borders, and a U.S. government that has linked it’s strategic intererst with that of the greedy souless corporate sector. In short i don’t think Jimmy Carter or most sensible obervers are suggesting a Jewish controlled media is the problem, but rather the corporate capatalist media which is more concerned with profit and power then people and truth.

]]> By: Struggling against Zionism » Critical Thoughts http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-585 Struggling against Zionism » Critical Thoughts Thu, 14 Dec 2006 05:32:43 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-585 [...] We also have a book review of Ilan Pappe's latest book, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Along with former President Jimmy Carter's book on Palestine, this book is certainly on my list of must-buys. Read the review and you will see how an Israeli historians admits to the suffering and organised ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and how the the "cleansing" of Palestinian territories was a necessity for the survival of the Jewish state. [...] [...] We also have a book review of Ilan Pappe’s latest book, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Along with former President Jimmy Carter’s book on Palestine, this book is certainly on my list of must-buys. Read the review and you will see how an Israeli historians admits to the suffering and organised ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and how the the “cleansing” of Palestinian territories was a necessity for the survival of the Jewish state. [...]

]]> By: Cyrus http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-541 Cyrus Tue, 12 Dec 2006 02:54:12 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-541 Obviously, "Observer", as he/she enjoys dubbing him/herself, is a delusional knit-wit. I bet if a dog took an unintentional crap on a Jew's shoes, "Observer" would call the dog an anti-semite!!! Get real!!! Let me put it in simple English for you: BEING AGAINST ISRAEL = ANTI-ISRAELI If anyone criticizes Israel, they are criticizing A GOVERNMENT; not a religion, race, creed or anything remotely close. Therefore, being ANTI-ISRAELI, BEING OPPOSED TO THE CURRENT POLICIES OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS NOT AND NEVER SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS ANTI-SEMITISM!!! As a matter of fact, Gerry, Observer and all other pro-israeli idiots ARE ANTI-SEMITIC people, since they won't hesitate to spill their bile against the Palestinians, Arabs, who along with the Jews ARE also RACIALLY SEMITIC!!! Touche... Obviously, “Observer”, as he/she enjoys dubbing him/herself, is a delusional knit-wit. I bet if a dog took an unintentional crap on a Jew’s shoes, “Observer” would call the dog an anti-semite!!! Get real!!! Let me put it in simple English for you:

BEING AGAINST ISRAEL = ANTI-ISRAELI

If anyone criticizes Israel, they are criticizing A GOVERNMENT; not a religion, race, creed or anything remotely close. Therefore, being ANTI-ISRAELI, BEING OPPOSED TO THE CURRENT POLICIES OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS NOT AND NEVER SHOULD BE CONSIDERED AS ANTI-SEMITISM!!! As a matter of fact, Gerry, Observer and all other pro-israeli idiots ARE ANTI-SEMITIC people, since they won’t hesitate to spill their bile against the Palestinians, Arabs, who along with the Jews ARE also RACIALLY SEMITIC!!!

Touche…

]]> By: Richard C http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-535 Richard C Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:34:44 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-535 Modern Israel is an affront to basic civilized norms. There is no debate about this. It is a repulsive state - a kind of Fagin's den built on theft, murder and lies. Modern Israel is an affront to basic civilized norms. There is no debate about this. It is a repulsive state - a kind of Fagin’s den built on theft, murder and lies.

]]> By: Yazrine http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-533 Yazrine Mon, 11 Dec 2006 06:13:06 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-533 Kudos to Former President Jimmy Carter, for once a brave voice to state the truth.I sincerely hope that the American Government and its people look at this with "fresh eyes" and with an open mind.Injustice breeds hostility and violance...So please....for the sake of humanity...read and understand what he is trying to say objectively.Its time for the only global superpower to show that it can be truly fair and just to ALL and not just to one. Kudos to Former President Jimmy Carter, for once a brave voice to state the truth.I sincerely hope that the American Government and its people look at this with “fresh eyes” and with an open mind.Injustice breeds hostility and violance…So please….for the sake of humanity…read and understand what he is trying to say objectively.Its time for the only global superpower to show that it can be truly fair and just to ALL and not just to one.

]]> By: My top-selling product as an Amazon affiliate » Critical Thoughts http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-531 My top-selling product as an Amazon affiliate » Critical Thoughts Mon, 11 Dec 2006 03:41:48 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-531 [...] But after Jimmy Carter published his latest book, this book is now my top-selling product as an Amazon affiliate. I have never seen such a drastic increase in sales as I do now. [...] [...] But after Jimmy Carter published his latest book, this book is now my top-selling product as an Amazon affiliate. I have never seen such a drastic increase in sales as I do now. [...]

]]> By: Observer http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-524 Observer Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:49:09 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-524 Although it is true that there is a significant Jewish presence in the Media, blanket assertions that Jews "control" the media is a glaring example of anti-semitism. Broad accusations such as this are based on stereotypes. True research into this issue does not include "googling" the topic and agreeing with another ubstantiated anti-semitic opinion. Take a realistic look at who the executives are at FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN and also the conglomerates which may or may not own these networks. I am certain that there are quite a few Jews in key positions at these companies. However, the mere fact that a few Jews serve as executives does not substantiate such a broad assertion. Are the other non-jewish executives entranced and simply following instructions? Please. Consider the following objectively. If Israel did not exist, do you think that would end the conflict between Islam and the West? Do you think Israel is the primary reason the US is involved in the Middle East? Do you believe that US support of Israel is the underlying reason for hate of the US? I submit that Israel and the Jews are being scapegoated as they have been throughout history. The Jews were persecuted in Ancient Israel and exiled on several occasions eventually leading to being spread out throughout the globe. The Jews were then persecuted and murdered countless times in almost every single country they have lived in culminating in the Holocaust. The Jews now have their own state and since its inception vitriolic accusations have been levied in its direction. Jews are not accepted as citizens of other countries nor is a separate Jewish state acceptable. If the Jewish state had been created on Antarctica I guarantee that Jews would be blamed for melting glaciers and the ensuing ecological crisis. Although it is true that there is a significant Jewish presence in the Media, blanket assertions that Jews “control” the media is a glaring example of anti-semitism. Broad accusations such as this are based on stereotypes. True research into this issue does not include “googling” the topic and agreeing with another ubstantiated anti-semitic opinion. Take a realistic look at who the executives are at FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN and also the conglomerates which may or may not own these networks. I am certain that there are quite a few Jews in key positions at these companies. However, the mere fact that a few Jews serve as executives does not substantiate such a broad assertion. Are the other non-jewish executives entranced and simply following instructions? Please. Consider the following objectively. If Israel did not exist, do you think that would end the conflict between Islam and the West? Do you think Israel is the primary reason the US is involved in the Middle East? Do you believe that US support of Israel is the underlying reason for hate of the US? I submit that Israel and the Jews are being scapegoated as they have been throughout history. The Jews were persecuted in Ancient Israel and exiled on several occasions eventually leading to being spread out throughout the globe. The Jews were then persecuted and murdered countless times in almost every single country they have lived in culminating in the Holocaust. The Jews now have their own state and since its inception vitriolic accusations have been levied in its direction. Jews are not accepted as citizens of other countries nor is a separate Jewish state acceptable. If the Jewish state had been created on Antarctica I guarantee that Jews would be blamed for melting glaciers and the ensuing ecological crisis.

]]> By: gojko http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-517 gojko Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:22:36 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-517 To those that claim high knowledge of that area: Palestine Israel: I do not have such detailed knowledge but there are some undeniable facts regarding of Palestine Israel history, at lest in the last hundred years, that ere not myths and could be verified and are not part of Israeli propaganda (“history”). Jews were tiny minority in that area of Middle East till the end of WWI, and Arabs were predominant people. The right of self determination, which was proclaimed as a guiding principle for forming new states after WWI , was mostly denied to Arabs who lived in that area ( Middle East). A lot of artificial states were created there, thanks to imperial powers and winners of WWI: Britain and France. Especially that was denied to Arabs in Palestine which were governed by British. There was Zionist project to create Jewish state but that project did not have support of majority of Jews in the world or those Jews that lived with Arabs for centuries. That project could not have any chance to succeed if Arabs had the right to control and organise the territories (where they were lived and had huge majority) according their will. Thanks to British and because of tragedy of Jews in Europe (Holocaust) during WWII , international community by UN allowed creation of Jewish state. They (UN) gave the Jewish population, which was around 33 % of all population of British Mandate (Palestine) and majority of those Jews lived there less then 5 years (mostly settlers and refugees, and just minority were born there), the right to create the state on land which for centuries belonged to Arabs. (I know that in the mind of all Jews that territory belong to them, but that was just imagination, not reality) Once again the right of self-determination was denied to Arabs in Palestine. That UN made huge mistake should be obvious just looking at what has happened in that area for last 60 years. Naturally, Arabs of Palestine rejected that UN proposal and started to rebel and fight Jews but they were defeated for various reasons. Zionist used that opportunity and started the ethnic cleansing of Arab population from the territory given to them by UN and also started grabbing for more. You have to know that almost 40% population of area designated to Israel were Arabs. Zionist new, that with such percentage of Arabs, Israel would never become Jewish as they desired. The creation of Israel was really marked by committing crime of the ethnic cleansing rather then heroic battles for liberation and defence, but that was never recognised and quickly hidden by Israeli propaganda. Arabs countries attacked Israel when Israel already started ethnic cleansing and taking more territories then was given to him by UN. The war with Arabs regular armies was never happen on Israeli territory (given by UN). Arab countries could claim that their just defending Palestinian Arabs but their goals was to destroy Israel and grab land for themself .They did not really care for Palestinians and when they did not succeeded to defeat Israel they made peace agreement with Israel which defined the border of Israel before 1967 and Palestinian land, according the UN partition plan of 1947, was divided between Egypt, Jordan and Israel. That was agreement between Israel and some Arab states. Nobody represented or cared for Palestinian Arabs. They are mention just as refugees in various UN resolutions. My opinion is that Palestinian made mistake when recognised Israel in borders before 1967. UN Resolution 242 is confirming basic principle of UN that new territory cannot be gained by war and when that resolution is asking for the return of occupied territories by Israel, and Israel is claiming that that does not mean to the territories which Israel was controlling before 1967, I would accept that. Only I would say that request includes all territories gained by war including the territories Israel gained by war in 1948. But that is now history, because majority of Palestinians and all international community recognised the border of Israel such as of 1967, but no more. Israel, if really wants peace with Palestinian and no a grab for more territory, should accept that generous offer and Palestinian sacrifice and withdraw inside the 1967 territories. What Israel was doing now is just a lot of talking about peace, democracy, terrorism but grabbing more and more land, hopping that the new reality and the criminal gains will be eventually accepted as those in the 1948 war. Israel was never punished for its crimes by international community, but forgot that was created by that international community and it is behaving as spoiled child that never learned about its responsibilities. sorry for my English. I agree with Carter plan. That is probably a maximum that Palestinians could get. To those that claim high knowledge of that area: Palestine Israel:
I do not have such detailed knowledge but there are some undeniable facts regarding of Palestine Israel history, at lest in the last hundred years, that ere not myths and could be verified and are not part of Israeli propaganda (“history”).
Jews were tiny minority in that area of Middle East till the end of WWI, and Arabs were predominant people. The right of self determination, which was proclaimed as a guiding principle for forming new states after WWI , was mostly denied to Arabs who lived in that area ( Middle East). A lot of artificial states were created there, thanks to imperial powers and winners of WWI: Britain and France. Especially that was denied to Arabs in Palestine which were governed by British.
There was Zionist project to create Jewish state but that project did not have support of majority of Jews in the world or those Jews that lived with Arabs for centuries.
That project could not have any chance to succeed if Arabs had the right to control and organise the territories (where they were lived and had huge majority) according their will. Thanks to British and because of tragedy of Jews in Europe (Holocaust) during WWII , international community by UN allowed creation of Jewish state.
They (UN) gave the Jewish population, which was around 33 % of all population of British Mandate (Palestine) and majority of those Jews lived there less then 5 years (mostly settlers and refugees, and just minority were born there), the right to create the state on land which for centuries belonged to Arabs.
(I know that in the mind of all Jews that territory belong to them, but that was just imagination, not reality)
Once again the right of self-determination was denied to Arabs in Palestine.

That UN made huge mistake should be obvious just looking at what has happened in that area for last 60 years.
Naturally, Arabs of Palestine rejected that UN proposal and started to rebel and fight Jews but they were defeated for various reasons.
Zionist used that opportunity and started the ethnic cleansing of Arab population from the territory given to them by UN and also started grabbing for more. You have to know that almost 40% population of area designated to Israel were Arabs. Zionist new, that with such percentage of Arabs, Israel would never become Jewish as they desired. The creation of Israel was really marked by committing crime of the ethnic cleansing rather then heroic battles for liberation and defence, but that was never recognised and quickly hidden by Israeli propaganda.
Arabs countries attacked Israel when Israel already started ethnic cleansing and taking more territories then was given to him by UN. The war with Arabs regular armies was never happen on Israeli territory (given by UN).
Arab countries could claim that their just defending Palestinian Arabs but their goals was to destroy Israel and grab land for themself .They did not really care for Palestinians and when they did not succeeded to defeat Israel they made peace agreement with Israel which defined the border of Israel before 1967 and Palestinian land, according the UN partition plan of 1947, was divided between Egypt, Jordan and Israel. That was agreement between Israel and some Arab states. Nobody represented or cared for Palestinian Arabs. They are mention just as refugees in various UN resolutions.
My opinion is that Palestinian made mistake when recognised Israel in borders before 1967.
UN Resolution 242 is confirming basic principle of UN that new territory cannot be gained by war and when that resolution is asking for the return of occupied territories by Israel, and Israel is claiming that that does not mean to the territories which Israel was controlling before 1967, I would accept that. Only I would say that request includes all territories gained by war including the territories Israel gained by war in 1948.
But that is now history, because majority of Palestinians and all international community recognised the border of Israel such as of 1967, but no more. Israel, if really wants peace with Palestinian and no a grab for more territory, should accept that generous offer and Palestinian sacrifice and withdraw inside the 1967 territories.
What Israel was doing now is just a lot of talking about peace, democracy, terrorism but grabbing more and more land, hopping that the new reality and the criminal gains will be eventually accepted as those in the 1948 war. Israel was never punished for its crimes by international community, but forgot that was created by that international community and it is behaving as spoiled child that never learned about its responsibilities.
sorry for my English.
I agree with Carter plan. That is probably a maximum that Palestinians could get.

]]> By: Neil http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-507 Neil Sat, 09 Dec 2006 20:08:09 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-507 I say Kutos!!! to Jimmy Carter for standing up and telling it like it is. May some of it stick to the wall. To Mike K Sniper fire? What Israeli was ever shot, wounded or killed from the sniper fire you are referring to. They have to use a concrete wall because of the sniper fire, give me a break. Oh yeah, I got some swamp land in Florida for sale, interested? To Some guy who studies history For someone who studies history you must not get out much..."The fact simply is that there are no ‘Palestinians.". This is the kind of thinking that has got you in the mess you are in. To Gerry You got your "homeland" with the help of the British, even though their original concept had nothing to do with granting statehood and then only if you respected the rights of those already living there. Bottom line, you were given an inch but you took a foot. What ever happened to "A deal is a deal". To Alan Dershowitz/Letter Those poor Palestinians they brought it all on themselves. NOT. ______ Peace and love to all. I say Kutos!!! to Jimmy Carter for standing up and telling it like it is. May some of it stick to the wall.

To Mike K
Sniper fire? What Israeli was ever shot, wounded or killed from the sniper fire you are referring to. They have to use a concrete wall because of the sniper fire, give me a break. Oh yeah, I got some swamp land in Florida for sale, interested?

To Some guy who studies history
For someone who studies history you must not get out much…”The fact simply is that there are no ‘Palestinians.”. This is the kind of thinking that has got you in the mess you are in.

To Gerry
You got your “homeland” with the help of the British, even though their original concept had nothing to do with granting statehood and then only if you respected the rights of those already living there. Bottom line, you were given an inch but you took a foot. What ever happened to “A deal is a deal”.

To Alan Dershowitz/Letter
Those poor Palestinians they brought it all on themselves. NOT.
______

Peace and love to all.

]]> By: Joe Parko http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-504 Joe Parko Sat, 09 Dec 2006 15:12:24 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-504 I was at a luncheon today ( Dec. 8 ) at the Carter Presidential Library where Jimmy Carter spoke about his new book on Palestine. He carefully described his thinking in writing the book and choosing the title. He said that apartheid was the only word he knew that accurately described what he had observed in the Palestinian territories. He said that the Israeli government does not want peace. It wants Palestinian land. Carter said that he meant his book to be deliberately provocative because "there is an impenetrable wall between American citizens and what is going on in Palestine." During the Q & A period after his talk, I asked about the role of AIPAC in silencing criticism of Israel. He said that AIPAC (American Israeli Public Affairs Committee) was likely the most powerful lobby in the U.S. and was not interested in peace but was only concerned with promoting the policies of the Israeli government. Carter did not pull any punches today as he roundly condemned the Palestinian policy of the Israeli government.He said that he was deeply saddened that the Israeli government has chosen the path of colonizing, oppressing and trying to evict the Palestinian people from their land. I was at a luncheon today ( Dec. 8 ) at the Carter Presidential Library where Jimmy Carter spoke about his new book on Palestine. He carefully described his thinking in writing the book and choosing the title. He said that apartheid was the only word he knew that accurately described what he had observed in the Palestinian territories. He said that the Israeli government does not want peace. It wants Palestinian land. Carter said that he meant his book to be deliberately provocative because “there is an impenetrable wall between American citizens and what is going on in Palestine.” During the Q & A period after his talk, I asked about the role of AIPAC in silencing criticism of Israel. He said that AIPAC (American Israeli Public Affairs Committee) was likely the most powerful lobby in the U.S. and was not interested in peace but was only concerned with promoting the policies of the Israeli government. Carter did not pull any punches today as he roundly condemned the Palestinian policy of the Israeli government.He said that he was deeply saddened that the Israeli government has chosen the path of colonizing, oppressing and trying to evict the Palestinian people from their land.

]]> By: unbiased person http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-498 unbiased person Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:56:49 +0000 http://www.israeliwatch.com/2006/11/25/jimmy-carter-palestine-peace-not-apartheid/#comment-498 Here is the reality of the situation. almost all news media in the united states its controlled or owned by jewish american citizens. If anyone really wants to get to the bottom line of this problem it starts there. The fact of the matter is that every major news organization which shows you whats happening in the middle east is owned or controlled almost completly by jewish american citizens. across the world it is very well known the facts about what is REALLY going on. in the U.S if anyone dares to critize israel he is declared a anti-semite and his opinion and character is destroyed by media and anyone afraid of the same. Now im sure the same will be said about jimmy carter. they will say he is a anti semite and give no real debate to his book and views 1on any major news station in the U.S. the reason i saw this blog or whatever u want to call it is because i just saw on CNN what they had to say about the book, they gave it 30 secs of coverage and talked about a map he used in the book which they say was copied from another book, it had absolutly nothing to do with the material of the book. as im writing this right now about to see something about the book on cnn's wolf blitzer show, by the way if anyone wants to look it up you will see that the vast majority of news anchors or people that give there opinion on cnn are mostly jewish americans, talk about unbiased news huh? two guys named kenneth stein and dennis ross both came on the show to talk about there views of the book. Im very surprised to see after looking them up they are both jewish and so is wolf blitzer by the way.(note the sarcasm) Here is the bottom line untill the influences of the israel lobby or AIPAC can be stopped or untill the media that covers the situation, that includes all t.v news newspapers print and many various methods of spreading propaganda is no longer controlled by jewish americans you will never hear unbiased and fair news, it will always favor israel. I CHALLENGE ANYONE READING THIS TO REALLY LOOK INTO THE ISSUES OF WHO OWNS THE MEDIA AND THE INFLUENCES OF PRO ISRAELI LOBYISTS IN THE UNITED STATES. As long as the U.S and its presidents and congress are blindly is controlled by rich jewish americans who control the media therefore what is news to americans and the cash flow that fund political campaigns there will never be a end to this problem. I would love to continue the discussion with anyone who has a intelligent opinion, i am not a anti-semite, i have many jewish friends as well as my girlfriend is jewish who all support this opinion. Here is the reality of the situation. almost all news media in the united states its controlled or owned by jewish american citizens. If anyone really wants to get to the bottom line of this problem it starts there. The fact of the matter is that every major news organization which shows you whats happening in the middle east is owned or controlled almost completly by jewish american citizens. across the world it is very well known the facts about what is REALLY going on. in the U.S if anyone dares to critize israel he is declared a anti-semite and his opinion and character is destroyed by media and anyone afraid of the same. Now im sure the same will be said about jimmy carter. they will say he is a anti semite and give no real debate to his book and views 1on any major news station in the U.S. the reason i saw this blog or whatever u want to call it is because i just saw on CNN what they had to say about the book, they gave it 30 secs of coverage and talked about a map he used in the book which they say was copied from another book, it had absolutly nothing to do with the material of the book. as im writing this right now about to see something about the book on cnn’s wolf blitzer show, by the way if anyone wants to look it up you will see that the vast majority of news anchors or people that give there opinion on cnn are mostly jewish americans, talk about unbiased news huh? two guys named kenneth stein and dennis ross both came on the show to talk about there views of the book. Im very surprised to see after looking them up they are both jewish and so is wolf blitzer by the way.(note the sarcasm) Here is the bottom line untill the influences of the israel lobby or AIPAC can be stopped or untill the media that covers the situation, that includes all t.v news newspapers print and many various methods of spreading propaganda is no longer controlled by jewish americans you will never hear unbiased and fair news, it will always favor israel. I CHALLENGE ANYONE READING THIS TO REALLY LOOK INTO THE ISSUES OF WHO OWNS THE MEDIA AND THE INFLUENCES OF PRO ISRAELI LOBYISTS IN THE UNITED STATES.
As long as the U.S and its presidents and congress are blindly is controlled by rich jewish americans who control the media therefore what is news to americans and the cash flow that fund political campaigns there will never be a end to this problem. I would love to continue the discussion with anyone who has a intelligent opinion, i am not a anti-semite, i have many jewish friends as well as my girlfriend is jewish who all support this opinion.

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